Feedback Report: No-Close Date with Older Italian (Age objection)
Date: 28/02/2020
==========
Context
Met this girl during rock dancing night less than a week ago. I had authority by being a good dancer and teaching her a few things. She seemed into me so I took her aside and we talked for a bit. Mentioned her tattoo, and that she’s adventurous. Number closed and went to dance with other girls before leaving.
Minimal texting, logistics mostly. Translation below.
The Date
Having objected to meeting at my place, I decided to meet at a bar close to my place. We had a good conversation. I was trying to steer the conversation in a sexual direction but I wasn’t feeling it. I asked her what she thought of Italian men, and she said that she couldn’t say because she’s been in France since the age of 21. I asked her how old she was and she said 31 (she looked rather 25 for me). She asked me my age, made her guess (she said 30) then I told her I was 26. I didn’t see a noticeable reaction on her, but then I proceeded to DHV by talking about how I’ve been with older and younger women. She’s been with older men. and she’s a theater teacher in university so she said that she can’t see herself with guys who could be her students, and that she had a younger sister who was 25, so to her these guys were out of the question (I didn’t pick up on it).
We talked about french men and how most of them are not assertive and dominant enough, then I ran the type routine in a lighter way. I asked her if she liked having her hair pulled and she said absolutely not. Should have picked up on this non-compliance as a symptom.
We went back to talking about dancing, and I seeded the pull by saying that I was going to test her salsa skills.
The conversation went back to her life, and what she likes to do and so on while she was finishing her beer. Then I told her let’s get out of there, she asked me where to and I said that we’ll have a walk.
We went outside, walking towards my place. During this part I was on autopilot, going to my place while doing pull talk. When we got there I realized that I hadn’t actually told her that we were going to mine. She was kinda surprised as I was opening the building door, and said “I thought we were gonna take a walk”, I told her that I had to use the bathroom, and that we could chill. Then I threw a false time constraint (“gotta wake up early tomorrow”) to which she said “I can leave if you want”. I reassured her and took the elevator.
My Place
Once we got inside we took off our coats and shoes, and relaxed on the couch. Then I showed her the speakers, and put some salsa music to test her, followed by bachata. We were dancing pretty close and I could feel her getting a bit turned on but I felt something holding her back. So we went back to the couch, and she was sitting on the opposite side, as if trying to keep her distance. There I focused on lowering my voice and having stronger eye contact. Her pupils were quite dilated the whole night. The conversation however was quite platonic, and she wasn’t going along when I tried to pull her closer into me.
After about 10 minutes I had enough so I took her hand and stood up to dance. Got closer again, breathing heavily on her neck, then I started kissing it, eventually kissing her. Once I felt that she was quite into it and kinda chasing the kiss I took her hand and led her to my room. I played some sexy music and set the lights to red. This made her take a step back and she said “I’m not going to sleep with you tonight”. I said that was okay and told her how I don’t have sex with a girl unless she’s begging and 100% into it. This way I know that it’s going to be good, and that I’ve had enough of bad sex. She relaxes and we start kissing and escalating more on the bed. She was going along, but every time I break off a little (to reposition or remove my shirt or watch) I felt that she was thinking about it and was conflicted. So I brought it up, saying “There seems to be something bothering you”. She said that it was going too fast. I probed further (while telling her that I like to live in the moment and that I only sleep with girls if I know that I want to see them again). Then I told her a made-up story about my cousin who used to be a virgin but now she’s sexually liberated and feels good about hooking up with a guy on the first date if they’re both feeling it. She said that she actually wasn’t feeling it, and after asking why, she said that it was because I was younger than her.
This is where I tried everything I could think of. I told her that she was the youngest of the older women I’ve been with, told her that my oldest was 42, and she was reacting in a kinda judgmental way. I asked her if I said that I was 30, would she have gone for it, and her answer was kinda yes. So I proceeded to reframe it, telling her that younger men can have the qualities that make older men attractive. She said that she had a mental block around the idea that I could be her student, and that she wants to put some age distance between her and them. I told her that there’s a big difference between young people who work and students (in terms of mentality and all). I also said that she knows that I’m not like her other students, otherwise she would have picked up on it, rather than guessing I was 30. None of it worked. Then she left.
==========
MY ANALYSIS
I’ve had way better dates. I think that my busy week had fucked up my head because I was way off my game. I decided to post the report anyway to maybe get feedback on things that I may have missed.
Lack of recent practice made me less calibrated than I could have been. I made mistakes that I rarely make, but I’m fine with it.
I should have dealt with non-compliance on the date, and pick up on the not very high value problem that caused it. Also didn’t make her qualify that much.
During escalation, I got objections and LMR that could have easily been solved preemptively during the conversation.
I was quite relaxed and unphased when I was getting and dealing with her objections, which was a good point, and helped smooth things by being non-needy.
This is the first time that I get an actual age objection. I’ve been with older women many times, and while at first they are surprised that I am younger than I look (and younger than them), it almost never was an issue for me.
==========
QUESTIONS: What questions do I have?
Is there any other angle I could have taken regarding the age objection?
I feel that if I turned her on more she would have gone with it, but is it possible that she would have regretted it later?
==========
APPENDIX: Texting translation
Me: Hey! Is this the adventurous italian girl? (referring to our conversation the day before and her tattoo)
Her: Hey! I think so. All good?
Me: Long day. Have you been a nice or mean teacher ?
Her: Too nice. I’m at the rock party
Me: (smirk emoji, I don’t know why I sent it, I was tired af)
Her: Good night! See you very soon
Me: (4 days later) Hey sorry I had a very busy week! How’s it going with you?
Her: I’m good and you?
Me: I can’t wait for the weekend! Got any cool plans?
Her: I know that I’m doing something with my friends on Saturday, but I’m free tomorrow after 8 and on Sunday. And you?
Me: I got something on Saturday too. I’m curious though
Her: Curious about what?
Me: Do you like wine?
Her: Yes
Me: In this case I suggest we split a bottle tomorrow night
Her: Perfect
Me: Cool, we’ll talk about the details tomorrow
Her: Ok, see you tomorrow then
Me: (the next day) Hey, still on for tonight?
Her: Yes after 8pm I will be at [X place], you?
Me: Come to [Y place], we’ll chill in my living room
Her: Sorry, I wanna have a drink but not in your living room
Me: We can sit in a bar then. I know some good ones in [Y area]
Her: OK
Me: Let me know when you’re 30 minutes out
(The rest is just logistics)
Date: 28/02/2020
==========
Context
Met this girl during rock dancing night less than a week ago. I had authority by being a good dancer and teaching her a few things. She seemed into me so I took her aside and we talked for a bit. Mentioned her tattoo, and that she’s adventurous. Number closed and went to dance with other girls before leaving.
Minimal texting, logistics mostly. Translation below.
The Date
Having objected to meeting at my place, I decided to meet at a bar close to my place. We had a good conversation. I was trying to steer the conversation in a sexual direction but I wasn’t feeling it. I asked her what she thought of Italian men, and she said that she couldn’t say because she’s been in France since the age of 21. I asked her how old she was and she said 31 (she looked rather 25 for me). She asked me my age, made her guess (she said 30) then I told her I was 26. I didn’t see a noticeable reaction on her, but then I proceeded to DHV by talking about how I’ve been with older and younger women. She’s been with older men. and she’s a theater teacher in university so she said that she can’t see herself with guys who could be her students, and that she had a younger sister who was 25, so to her these guys were out of the question (I didn’t pick up on it).
We talked about french men and how most of them are not assertive and dominant enough, then I ran the type routine in a lighter way. I asked her if she liked having her hair pulled and she said absolutely not. Should have picked up on this non-compliance as a symptom.
We went back to talking about dancing, and I seeded the pull by saying that I was going to test her salsa skills.
The conversation went back to her life, and what she likes to do and so on while she was finishing her beer. Then I told her let’s get out of there, she asked me where to and I said that we’ll have a walk.
We went outside, walking towards my place. During this part I was on autopilot, going to my place while doing pull talk. When we got there I realized that I hadn’t actually told her that we were going to mine. She was kinda surprised as I was opening the building door, and said “I thought we were gonna take a walk”, I told her that I had to use the bathroom, and that we could chill. Then I threw a false time constraint (“gotta wake up early tomorrow”) to which she said “I can leave if you want”. I reassured her and took the elevator.
My Place
Once we got inside we took off our coats and shoes, and relaxed on the couch. Then I showed her the speakers, and put some salsa music to test her, followed by bachata. We were dancing pretty close and I could feel her getting a bit turned on but I felt something holding her back. So we went back to the couch, and she was sitting on the opposite side, as if trying to keep her distance. There I focused on lowering my voice and having stronger eye contact. Her pupils were quite dilated the whole night. The conversation however was quite platonic, and she wasn’t going along when I tried to pull her closer into me.
After about 10 minutes I had enough so I took her hand and stood up to dance. Got closer again, breathing heavily on her neck, then I started kissing it, eventually kissing her. Once I felt that she was quite into it and kinda chasing the kiss I took her hand and led her to my room. I played some sexy music and set the lights to red. This made her take a step back and she said “I’m not going to sleep with you tonight”. I said that was okay and told her how I don’t have sex with a girl unless she’s begging and 100% into it. This way I know that it’s going to be good, and that I’ve had enough of bad sex. She relaxes and we start kissing and escalating more on the bed. She was going along, but every time I break off a little (to reposition or remove my shirt or watch) I felt that she was thinking about it and was conflicted. So I brought it up, saying “There seems to be something bothering you”. She said that it was going too fast. I probed further (while telling her that I like to live in the moment and that I only sleep with girls if I know that I want to see them again). Then I told her a made-up story about my cousin who used to be a virgin but now she’s sexually liberated and feels good about hooking up with a guy on the first date if they’re both feeling it. She said that she actually wasn’t feeling it, and after asking why, she said that it was because I was younger than her.
This is where I tried everything I could think of. I told her that she was the youngest of the older women I’ve been with, told her that my oldest was 42, and she was reacting in a kinda judgmental way. I asked her if I said that I was 30, would she have gone for it, and her answer was kinda yes. So I proceeded to reframe it, telling her that younger men can have the qualities that make older men attractive. She said that she had a mental block around the idea that I could be her student, and that she wants to put some age distance between her and them. I told her that there’s a big difference between young people who work and students (in terms of mentality and all). I also said that she knows that I’m not like her other students, otherwise she would have picked up on it, rather than guessing I was 30. None of it worked. Then she left.
==========
MY ANALYSIS
I’ve had way better dates. I think that my busy week had fucked up my head because I was way off my game. I decided to post the report anyway to maybe get feedback on things that I may have missed.
Lack of recent practice made me less calibrated than I could have been. I made mistakes that I rarely make, but I’m fine with it.
I should have dealt with non-compliance on the date, and pick up on the not very high value problem that caused it. Also didn’t make her qualify that much.
During escalation, I got objections and LMR that could have easily been solved preemptively during the conversation.
I was quite relaxed and unphased when I was getting and dealing with her objections, which was a good point, and helped smooth things by being non-needy.
This is the first time that I get an actual age objection. I’ve been with older women many times, and while at first they are surprised that I am younger than I look (and younger than them), it almost never was an issue for me.
==========
QUESTIONS: What questions do I have?
Is there any other angle I could have taken regarding the age objection?
I feel that if I turned her on more she would have gone with it, but is it possible that she would have regretted it later?
==========
APPENDIX: Texting translation
Me: Hey! Is this the adventurous italian girl? (referring to our conversation the day before and her tattoo)
Her: Hey! I think so. All good?
Me: Long day. Have you been a nice or mean teacher ?
Her: Too nice. I’m at the rock party
Me: (smirk emoji, I don’t know why I sent it, I was tired af)
Her: Good night! See you very soon
Me: (4 days later) Hey sorry I had a very busy week! How’s it going with you?
Her: I’m good and you?
Me: I can’t wait for the weekend! Got any cool plans?
Her: I know that I’m doing something with my friends on Saturday, but I’m free tomorrow after 8 and on Sunday. And you?
Me: I got something on Saturday too. I’m curious though
Her: Curious about what?
Me: Do you like wine?
Her: Yes
Me: In this case I suggest we split a bottle tomorrow night
Her: Perfect
Me: Cool, we’ll talk about the details tomorrow
Her: Ok, see you tomorrow then
Me: (the next day) Hey, still on for tonight?
Her: Yes after 8pm I will be at [X place], you?
Me: Come to [Y place], we’ll chill in my living room
Her: Sorry, I wanna have a drink but not in your living room
Me: We can sit in a bar then. I know some good ones in [Y area]
Her: OK
Me: Let me know when you’re 30 minutes out
(The rest is just logistics)